I know this has been covered several times in the past but there was no clear answer.

My situation is not unique to the masses but new to me...

I installed an extensive Crestron system a couple of years back. I naturally provided a completely customized program for the client. I've maintained the system for the client all this time. This client is one of the nicest, finiest clients anyone could have. (for the record)

I have written some convenient modules for myself to simplify my programming over the years and implement them into ALL my code writing for all my jobs.

The client sells his home. New home owner asks me to come in and "tidy up" a few things to his liking. After a few visits, several scheduling conflicts, conversations about how he can get "that" item for less, new home owner gets pushy, no longer wants me to do the work and just wants the program so he can get someone else to do the work.

I say he does not own my "intellectual property" mainly because it's; my code, my modules. He, of course, says he owns the program.

Aside from not knowing what the arrangement was when he bought the home... (I'm sure this topic did not come up), he says he'll have his lawyer contact me. I explained I have no contract or liability to you whatsoever. As a matter of fact, he owes me for my services performed, in the mean time. (Waiting for TV services to become available).

One does not go to KFC and ask Col. Sanders for his batter recipe so they can make their own fried chicken.

I'm not budging on this. I've worked too long and hard (self taught) on this Crestron programming, that I should just give it away. It's not for sale.

I would say your agreement was with the previous homeowner as they were the ones that hired you. You could lock up all of your programming in modules so that giving it to him would be useless for the most part. All you should be required to hand over is a working version of the program regardless of whether or not it can be modified.

The system is a working one as left by the previous owner and me. It may not be to the new owners liking, but he still ahs the program loaded into his system.

Crestron programming in non-retreivable unless it is downloaded a certain way and even then it is not a completely working program to work with (not 100% certain on that)

Tell him to go ask Bill Gates for his source code for the Windows OS he has loaded on his PC.

We are writing custom programs for specific applications with proprietary licsensed software. We are not selling out programs to the clients, we are selling the functionality of the system.

This is a complete no brainer. Your contract was with the previous home owner. Once the house sold your not obligated to hand over anything. If the new homeowner wants to pay you for service or buy the code then let him. The new homeowner has no leg to stand on.

Even if the previous homeowner stated or signed something that said you would provide the code you dont have to. Neither of them can include you in a contract between them. Thats just him trying to scare you with the word "lawyer".

If he wants to be a bitch about it tell them this "oops i deleted it by accident, sorry about that".

As far as i know (unless something changed recently), you can't edit the compiled file on the processor. You can backup the compiled file (pull it off the processor) but you cant edit it.


Thats what i have always said.

When you buy a mercedes you get what it has and you pay for anything you want to add or change (stereo, tires, interior). You dont get schematics and software to upgrade it. Same with a TV. You get the TV a remote and a manual and thats it. You dont get source code.

Some argue that homeowners get stuck when they want to add/change something to a Crestron (or similar) system and they dont have the code and the original CI's dont come thru. It sucks to pay 10k to a new guy just to add a new dvd player or change some favorite channels.

The answer is to charge for the code and leave a copy with the client. That way you wont care if they go somewhere else because you got paid. CAIP's usually give the code to CI's when they outsource programming so i dont think its unfair to give the client a copy if they pay for it. Any modules you create while your being paid for programming are a bonus for the programmer because next job you get to copy/paste it and charge the same as you did when you were creating it.

Do you have contract with this individual?? Does he have a contract with the previous owner in regards to your work??

Is it worth pissing off this person and getting a bad referral??

Sounds like a plan... hehehehehhe

Have you worked on/modified the program since the current owner took possession of the system? If so, that could be a potential 'in' for the new owner to claim that you haven't fulfilled your contractual obligations to him [assuming the work is not 100% complete and/or the system not 100% functional].

Regardless, he cannot demand to take possession of the source code. The *most* you owe him is a fully functioning system operating to the specifications of the contract you have with him OR functioning as it was when he took possession, not the code that causes the system to function, unless you have a contract [with him, not the previous owner] specifically stating otherwise.

Regarding the ability to retrieve a program from a Crestron processor. You can do it, but you'll only have the post-compiled code. This would allow you to [potentially] replicate the system, but not make modifications. To make modifications you'll need the original SMW file [plus any modules, IR files, etc...]. Same goes for the touch panels. It is possible to reconstruct the [post compilation] VTZ file from the panels directory, but any modifications would require the VTP file.

If presented with a situation like yours, assuming all my contractual obligations were fulfilled, I'd tell the owner that he had 2 options, with regards to doing business with me and/or obtaining the source code...

1) Continue to work with me to make the system function as he desires, with the understanding that additional language [and dollars] could be added to the contract that would allow him to take possession of the source at the completion of the project.

2) Negotiate a sell price for the source code, as is [again, assuming the system is functioning and/or all existing obligations are met]. This assumes you did not have a previous arrangement where by the original owner had ownership and sole rights to the source code.

My personal [and corporate] policy is that pre and post compilation code will be provided upon request [at no additional charge], *only* to the party that contracted me to write the code and only after all contractual obligations have been fulfilled [code working, bills paid].

Sounds like the pissing off has already commenced...do you think handing over the code would result in a good referral?

Some more info is needed regarding your relationship with the new homeowner. i.e. what you were hired to do, what was done and what is left undone. Your contract with the previous owner does not pass over to the new owner, that is for sure. You could come up with an agreed upon amount and give it to him. Chances are whoever he finds to "fix it up" will have no clue what your program was accomplishing in regards to your modules and will either end up making things worse or telling him they have to start from scratch anyway. At which point, you will probably be getting another call to come back.

I have no "relationship" with the new owner of the home. I was recommended (rightfully so) by the previous home owner whom I did the system for.

I gave a quick summary of the events, There is certainly bad blood now and the way they asked for the program.... really sounded like they were well informed about the situation.

"Can I get a copy of the program? A friend of mine wants to take a look."

Yeah, sure. I'll throw in my SS# and bank account and PIN info too.

I do not like sneaky. I do not like kniving. This is a disaster in the making.

Anyway, thank you all for your input.

Keep us posted because this is a situation I have not had to cross. Nor do I look forward to experiencing, though it has to happen sooner or later.

But it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I find this entire conversation doopid.

How anonymous of you...